Episode 16: Holding Both

Kristy: 00:07
Welcome to Unshaken, the podcast where unwavering faith meets real life. I’m Kristy, and together with my husband Tony, we dive into authentic conversations, offering biblical insights and sharing stories that inspire resilience, especially for families navigating the unique challenges of disabilities. Join us each week as we explore faith, family, and the journeys that keep us grounded in Christ. Don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode. Let’s stand firm together.

Tony: 00:40
Well, hey guys, it’s Tony, and I am here uh with my wife Kristy, and um we’re gonna talk about a little bit of a heavy subject today. We’re gonna uh talk about healing versus acceptance, and I hesitate to even use that sort of title because it’s not um a battle between the two the two things. It’s not they’re not enemies of each other. You know, we’re also not going to like pick sides of one over the other. We do know that that God can heal and often does, and you know, but at the same time, like we’re not going to say that you know it’s just about praying harder or doing this more or having more faith, or uh I think that’s a really dangerous kind of place to be. We do want to walk through uh this tension, uh, because I think uh especially in the in the disability space, it speaks to what many families have to kind of walk through and and wrestle with a little bit. And so, you know, we we felt like this was something um important to talk about and just to talk about it from our perspective and through the experiences that that we’ve had, um, and how we’ve kind of you know wrestled through that and wrestled with God. And and by the way, wrestling with God is not a bad thing, it’s not sinful, like it’s not you’re not wrong for wanting to wrestle with God. It it’s okay. And I and I do believe that you know through prayer and and living a life that you are going to at times wrestle with God to kind of get to a place of understanding what’s going on or just accepting and and being able to move forward. Again, I I do believe that that God is able to heal, and we’ve seen you know, friends and families, you know, walk through some some you know pretty uh serious, you know, medical things and you know, seen you know, God do some incredible things through that. Um, but at the same time, none of us are Jesus. And so we’re not gonna just touch a leper and all of a sudden you know that person be miraculously healed. I do believe that that happened. I do believe that Jesus did that, but again, we’re not him. It’s it’s a it’s a tension, but at the same time, it’s something that that I think it’s important to talk about and to and to walk through. And I think, if nothing else, guys, I want you to know that Kristy and I, we’re not going to shy away from the tough subjects. We’re not gonna shy shy away from the hard conversations and the things that that we even struggle with. And you know, those those difficult times and decisions because uh because if we did that, then we wouldn’t be authentic to not only who we are, but we wouldn’t be authentic to you guys. That authenticity is important to both of us. We want to live that out. You know, so that’s why we’re we’re doing this topic today. And uh hopefully it’s uh if nothing else, hopefully it’s something that just helps you on on your journey if you’re in the middle of a season like this. If you’re not in a season like this, if you know someone that is in the middle of wrestling with God, you know, hopefully, you know, this is something that you can send to them, and hopefully it’ll be um encouraging to them. And uh, like we always say, we want to hear those stories. So share those with us, and um, you know, hopefully, again, uh this is something that really does help.

Kristy: 04:34
I think it’s important to mention that there is not necessarily a correlation between our failures or our sins or anything like that and our hardships. Of course, we have to be responsible for our actions. I think we can all point to situations where someone’s negligence or or bad choices brought about hardship for themselves or for other people, you know, their family or even strangers. You play silly games, you win silly prizes sometimes, and and we have to own that. But it is absolutely not to be assumed that sin is the reason for a disability or or an illness or any other hardship. It is that’s not how our God works. It’s it’s not it’s not a tit-for-tat thing like that.

Tony: 05:23
If you’ve been with this podcast, you guys hopefully have heard my story, and you guys know in John 9, you know, the disciples made this bad assumption. You know, they they see the blind man on the side of the road, and their immediate question to Jesus was, Jesus, who sinned? You know, they um automatically assumed that this guy was blind because of someone’s sin. And Jesus very quickly lets them know no one sinned. This was not, this was not the result of his parent of his parents sinning or or of himself sinning, this was brought about so that the glory of God could be shown through his life. And so we we want to make sure that that is out there that just because something happens, whether it be at birth, you know, or beyond, it’s not an automatic assumption of sin.

Kristy: 06:22
I think in our own lives, um, you know, we’ve we’ve had our share of hardships, of struggles, just like anybody else. You know, our own experience with disability, our own, you know, from time to time financial stuff or job loss or illness or or aging of a family member who’s beloved. Like there’s just stuff that happens to all of us. I want to share with you guys something that that I continue after almost 20 years to struggle with. I want to I want to share it because I think it’s I think it’s relatable. And I think you know, many of you may have had a similar circumstance or at least can relate this to something else that’s that’s happening in your lives. I want to let you know that I’m I’m gonna talk about a pregnancy loss. So if that’s something that you’re not in a position to hear about right now, know that we will be praying for you. That it won’t always hurt like it does. But um just take this opportunity maybe to um to skip to the next episode. So for me, between the girls, I lost a pregnancy at the very end of my first trimester. I was um it was like 11, 12 weeks, and you know, just had some troubling uh symptoms, um, went and got it checked out, and all I prayed was to just, you know, please God, like let this be okay, like let this little bean be okay. You know, it was everything I could think of. It was the entire focus of my days and nights while we kind of waded through that situation, and as it worked out, you know, it it wasn’t meant to be. It it there were some, you know, abnormalities with with that situation, and and so I lost the pregnancy I miscarried. And it was just by the way the circumstances were, it was a little bit of a drawn-out thing. My doctor was out of town, so I had to see a different doctor that I didn’t know. All this to say that this went on for for about a month. Uh, we finally we we went out of town. It was a really tough season. You know, we had lost the the baby, and my grandfather, who lived like 20 minutes from us um and had been ailing, um, he passed away, and we lost a cat and a parrot inside of 24 hours, just beloved pets. It was just a rough, like it was like a rough week. It was a really horrible time. And so I think for me, all of that, like the grief around all of those like individual circumstances is kind of like wrapped up in a like a ball of twine for me. And so after that happened, I prayed every single time I would close my eyes to sleep, to rest, to, you know, just to take a minute, whatever, every time I prayed. And I would ask God, I I just felt like I needed to know if if the baby had been a girl or a boy. And I can’t tell you why it mattered to me so much, but I felt like I couldn’t go forward without knowing that. And we went out of town for just a break from you know from every day. We went out of town for about 10 days. And we got on a plane at night to come back home, and we were seat belted in, and you know, it was kind of a, it was late, so it was kind of a drowsy time. And I was like, okay, like this is, I’m gonna take the downtime, I’m gonna see if I can sleep. And I closed my eyes and I prayed that prayer that I had prayed hundreds of times, probably 300, 500 times before. I said, you know, God, please let me know. And you guys, as clear as I, as clear as I know my name, I heard in my head, in my heart, I heard, why are you asking? You know that it was a boy. And I that was it. I had prayed so many times, not only to find out, but that I said every time, if you like, I won’t doubt it, I won’t question it, like if you could just tell me, I’ll never, like, I won’t wonder, I won’t second guess it, I’ll just run with it. And and I was able to keep my word on that piece. Um, and after that night, I had so much more peace, um, you know, than I had had for weeks prior to that. But even still, this is um that baby would have been 20 uh next month. Even still, uh, because this happened at, you know, at the time when you start thinking that you’re safe and it was right at Christmas time, he was given some gifts for Christmas, and they’re packed up in a little bin, you know, upstairs in a cabinet that I can’t reach. And after, you know, 19 years, almost 20 years, I still can’t open that. I still haven’t looked at them. I mean, not since then. I could tell you everything that’s in there, what it looks like, what color it is, but I just have never been able to go back into that uh into that bin. I tell you this not to bring up any hurts for you. And if I have, I’m so sorry. But just to share this and just to let you know that horrible things happen sometimes, and and I prayed all of the things throughout it. You know, I prayed that that it would be healed, I prayed that, you know, that it would, everything would be okay, and then it wasn’t, and I prayed for acceptance, and I still pray for acceptance. You know, and I still, in some ways, I have it, went on to had another beautiful baby, a healthy, happy rainbow baby, and that baby just turned 18. Literally this week, that baby just turned 18. And I thank God and I praise God, and I’m so grateful. Because if not for the loss, I wouldn’t have that kiddo. But I still, you know, I still look for it. I still miss, I still miss my boy. So all of this to say, you know, I’ve been there, we’ve all been there, we’ve all had our burdens, we’ve all carried them, and and it’s okay.

Tony: 13:10
You know, I was born with cerebral palsy. I can say that like my parents even had to go through this process because when I was a little kid and when when I was like first diagnosed, my parents got visited by every single kind of healer and doctor that that you can imagine. Like most of my family um is in Puerto Rico. So my parents, especially when I was when I was little, my parents would spend a lot of time in Puerto Rico. And while there, a lot of well-meaning people uh would come visit the house and would claim to have the way to heal Tony, to heal little Tony, and to heal his little legs, and all kinds of things were were done and and I mean and a lot of it, thankfully I don’t I don’t remember. A lot of it I I’ve heard from stories that my parents have told me. You know, one of the stories that they tell is that as a little kid, uh they brought me to the beach and apparently like they covered you know my legs with you know in sand, like I was, you know, covered I was buried in sand from the waist down, and some sort of in enchantment or was set over me that was supposedly going to heal me. And like if you’ve ever been to a tropical beach, you know that that sand is not cold. And that sand is pretty hot. You know, I can only imagine like how much I was screaming while, you know, while this sand was, you know, was all over my legs. And you know, but it was done in in the sense of like trying to heal me. Uh obviously it didn’t work, you know. I I still have cerebral palsy. You know, and my parents had to go through, you know, they the process of of grief and and you know they they hoped and you know in some ways they they prayed for healing and it didn’t happen. And so, you know, they had to work through the acceptance as as an individual. I had to work through through that as well. You know, as as a kid, I was angry at God, I was angry at my parents, I was angry at like I was angry at everyone. Why me? And why not the kid down the street? You know, I wanted to run and play and play baseball and play basketball like I wanted to do all the things that I saw, you know, the other kids doing, and I couldn’t do those things. I didn’t understand at the time, and it took until I was a sophomore in high school to really understand why I was made the way that I was. You know, I thought that I was a mistake, I thought I was made of spare parts, I thought I was an accident, you know, and not an accident from my parents’ side. I I thought that I was an accident by God, that God had made a mistake, that God had somehow messed up the formula and got me, you know, or like I was I was a leftovers, and he didn’t want to waste the leftovers, so he threw me together like Frankenstein. All these things like run ran through my head, and they ran through my head over and over and over again because of everything that I was going through growing up. You know, we we talk about these stories because we want you to know that this is not a linear process necessarily. This is a thing where you’re gonna go up and down and you’re gonna have good days and bad. There are days that I wake up and it’s it’s it sucks to have cerebral palsy. It’s you know, it’s painful. It you know, my body doesn’t do what I want it to do, you know, but I still have to get up and go to work every day. And at the same time, like I’ve gotten to the point of not only acceptance, but I actually see my cerebral palsy as something that actually helps me in my ministry and and in my life. You know, I don’t at this point in my life, I don’t pray for healing. Now, if God chooses to do so, fine. You know, I’m I’m not gonna turn it away and say, God, why did you heal me? Like, I’m not I’m not gonna pray that. You know, but I don’t act actively pray for healing anymore. And it makes me think of the story of uh Nick Vujicic. Uh so if you guys don’t know who he is, uh he was he’s a guy that was born with no arms and no legs. When you hear a story, he talks about how in his closet he’s got a pair of shoes in his closet. And it’s not that he necessarily prays for healing now, because he just goes and does ministry and he’s incredible. He speaks to stadiums of people, you know, bringing the gospel, but he says, I keep a pair of shoes there because if God ever does choose to heal me, I want to be ready. I want to be prepared for for that day if God so chooses to heal me on this side of heaven. He says, I’m gonna be healed on the other side of heaven, and when I’m with Jesus, I’m gonna be healed, and but on this side of heaven, I want to be ready. That’s how he deals with, and sort of how he has gone through his own acceptance of of what uh of what’s gone on. And so, you know, I I talk about these things because it’s going to be a different journey, you know, for for everyone. And you’re let me say this very plainly: you are allowed to grieve, you are allowed to grieve whatever the process is, if you’re not seeing healing happen, you are allowed to grieve, to sort of mourn the process, but in that, what I hope that you’re able also able to do is I hope that you’re able to move forward and still live the life that God has called you to live. You can be in a grieving process and still live the way that God wants you to live. You can go through that thing, and you know, it brings to mind, you know, Paul says in in uh 2 Corinthians, he says, you know, he talks about how he had some thorn in his flesh. We don’t know what that thorn was, but he he says, I prayed to God that he that God would take it away. And God says, My grace is sufficient for you, and my my power is made perfect in your weakness. So for Paul, now he is able to boast in that weakness. We don’t know what it is, we don’t know if it was a physical disability or like we don’t know, but whatever it is, now Paul boasts in that and says in this weakness God is made stronger, his power is made perfect. Honestly, that’s kind of how I see my cerebral palsy. Like, does it suck? Yeah, it does, but because of the cerebral palsy, I’m able to do this ministry, and to me, that’s an incredible gift, and so I don’t want it, I don’t want it to go away. Is it hard some days? Yeah, but I don’t want the cerebral palsy to go away because I don’t want the gift to go away, and so like that’s how I’ve been able to work through going through the process of praying for healing and praying through acceptance and really thanking God for being able to accept where I am and and how I can go forward. It’s not one or the other. You can go through the process, and it’s not gonna be just a straight line. It’s gonna be whatever the process is for you as an individual and as a family.

Kristy: 21:14
Um, I want to jump in here just a minute and say just a couple of things, just kind of to um to build on what Tony was saying. One is that it also doesn’t have to be always in the same direction. One day you might be praying for healing, and the next day you might be praying for acceptance, and then that afternoon, you know, maybe you’re praying for healing again, and that’s okay. It may be that you’re grieving. It may be that, you know, that you you’ve been in this grieving process for a long time and you’re feeling like I need to do better. I’m, you know, I’m failing at moving forward in this. And that’s not necessarily the case either. Like you, like Tony said, you’re allowed to grieve, and you don’t need to feel guilty. There’s nothing shameful about grieving. We all, you know, we all know that, you know, heaven is what we hope comes next, but that doesn’t mean that that we can’t be sad, know that we’ve lost someone or that we’ve lost experience or that we’re not going to have experiences that we had had counted on having. It might not be us, it might be a child, it might be, you know, a relationship, it could be a marriage, you know, you thought that you were going to be married forever. And I would think that no nobody gets married thinking, oh well, if I get divorced, I get divorced. You know, we we get married because we see forever. You know, I think we all have heard the stats on on how marriages hold up. You know, I’ve been divorced and Tony’s been divorced, and you know, here we are. I think we both kind of feel like we got it right this time, you know. But um neither of us got married, you know, the first time thinking it would that it would be okay if it if it ended. And it’s okay to grieve that, to, you know, to to lose the future that you were counting on. Even the persons. Somebody asked me, I don’t know, a while after I got divorced. It was, you know, years later, do you still miss him? Do you still love him? And what I said was, it doesn’t matter what I feel because he doesn’t exist anymore. Like the man that I married isn’t the man that I divorced. Like we changed, we grew. And so for me, you know, there was something to be mourned there that those two idealistic young people who, you know, who thought they had the tiger by the tail, like, they’re gone. You know what I mean? Life, life changed us, circumstances changed us. I guess the other thing that I would add is that no people have to have the same response. Like, please don’t compare yourself to somebody who has, you know, similar circumstances or a similar situation. The example that comes to mind is a grief share group, let’s say, and you are 40 years old and had an experience, and somebody that sits across the room from you that’s 42 years old and had a similar experience is fine. They’re they’re thriving, you know, they’re back at work, they’re living life to the fullest, and and they’re okay, and you’re still a hot mess. You know, crying in the in the car in the parking lot because you can’t force yourself to go in. That’s okay. Please don’t for a minute think that because somebody else is farther up the chain to acceptance than you are, that you’re doing it wrong or that they’re doing it better than you are. You know, we all have our own path, we all have our own journey, and everybody’s journey is different. Everybody’s journey has a different healing acceptance process and a different outcome. And it might be that that your outcome stops somewhere along the continuum and it never progresses beyond that. And if that’s where you are, that’s okay. I would just give a little plug here for, you know, if if you struggle with acceptance and and you feel something about that, I mean, there’s all sorts of professionals that can can help with that. You know, there’s clergy, there’s therapists, there’s, you know, there’s all kinds of ways to get help, and you you do not have to do it on your own. Certainly, there’s nothing in the Bible that says, and do it by yourself. Please don’t feel any kind of way. Like wherever you are and whatever your circumstance is, that’s where you are, and that’s what your circumstance is, and you’re not alone. God is with you. You know, there’s resources at your disposal. There’s people who love you and who empathize and who want to pray for you. And if you don’t know them in your life, well, that’s us. Like we’re here for you, and we love you and are praying for you. We pray for all of you guys. And we wish you every good thing. We want, we want all of us to have the solidarity that comes with community, the propping up that comes with knowing that people are out there who have similar experiences and circumstances, and you know, whether it’s disability or illness or divorce or a job situation, it could be anything. But whatever you’re dealing with, know that somebody, it’s my guess that somebody in this community, somebody in the unshaken community, has that same situation and can empathize and you know, is just in spirit there with you in it. Certainly we’re praying for you. Like I said, please pray for us, pray for each other. Let’s, you know, let’s all be praying about these things. And again, if if it’s something that is beyond you need some support with that, there’s no shame in that. Call the church, um, call the church office and and let somebody know, or make an appointment, check out your your EAP at work, you know, whatever that looks like for you, there’s just no shame in it.

Tony: 27:08
The overarching thing, uh I hope that all of you get out of this, is that it’s never one versus the other or one or the other. Usually the healing and acceptance process is exactly that. It’s a process.

Kristy: 27:23
In a matrix. it’s

Tony: 27:26
It’s not just I I got through the healing stage and now I’m towards acceptance. Like

Kristy: 27:32
step five, check.

Tony: 27:34
Yeah, and it’s it’s just not that sort of stage process. It’s it’s kind of a wheel, it’s kind of a a continuum of that sometimes you can be knocked backward and you have to work your way forward again. And that’s okay. We say it all the time, but we truly mean reach out, tell us your stories, tell us the things that we can be praying for. Trust me, we want to pray for those things. We do pray for our unshaken community. We love you guys, like we we see you, okay. I’m never one to be about numbers, you know. I can just tell you, like, we’ve we’ve gone to over a hundred cities, and that’s that’s huge. And we want to hear from you guys, we want to know what’s going on, and we want to we want to pray with you guys. We want to be able to be there with you. And so uh especially if you know someone that is maybe going through, you know, a tough process like this, please share this episode. You know, and we’re not doing it for numbers, we’re not doing it, we we’re doing it because we want to be a community. This is a community, guys, that is often isolates itself, and we are we are trying to break that isolation. We are trying to break down the walls to say you you are not alone. You know, if you are going through something and and you would like us to pray, please reach out, let us know. We would be more than happy to pray and and to walk with you in in this process, um, along with whatever professional help, you know, that that that you can get locally. Um I I fully agree agree with Kristy. Please reach out to someone, whether it’s a pastor or uh professional help or something through your job, uh please do that. Please get the help that you need in order to move forward in in this process. Beyond social media, you guys again can find us on Facebook and Instagram. Uh just uh type in the word unshaken or click on one of the links in the episode description. Also, we do have a website that you guys can go to to get more information about us and to get in contact with us uh because we again we we want to hear from you guys. Uh so you guys can reach us at unshakenministries.org. So unshaken ministries, one word, unshakenministries.org. Come and uh learn more about us and and learn a little bit more about the resources that we are actively currently working on right now. Like we Kristy and I are both writing our faces off and uh and uh we we are trying to to get those uh resources out and into your hands um as quickly as possible. And all of this, know that we love you. Uh, I think at the end of the day, just know that we love you, and we do this because because we care. Let’s pray, guys. Um uh before we pray, just want to make sure, uh Kristy, anything to add? And uh just make sure. Alright. All good, all good and awesome. Pray us out. Alright, so let me let me pray us out and um uh Father, we come before you today thankful that that we can wrestle with you and wrestle with with a really tough topic. Um wrestle through a a hard conversation and know that you are still smiling with us. Know that you are you are sitting with us in the process, whatever that process is, wherever we are in that process, you are right there. You’re right there with us next to us, going through that process. And so, Father, we just thank you for that. We thank you that you are not absent, that you are present with us. Father, we ask that uh that you just be with us every day. We are your children. So Father, we are climbing up into your lap right now, and we’re just asking that you would just be with us. There are hard, hard moments that are happening all over the world. Um, all over this Unshaken community. And so, Father, whatever the situation is, I just pray that you be with that person right now. If they if they’ve turned on this podcast and they felt like all alone, father, right now just wrap your arms around them and just let them know that you are with them. Let them know that you love them and that there is a plan and purpose for whatever they’re going through. Father, we we love you and we know that even in the hard situations we we may not get all the answers on this side of heaven. But we know on the other side you’re waiting to pull back the curtain and to show us all the wonderful things that we didn’t get to see on this side. So, Father, be with us. We love you, we truly do love you, and we thank you for everything that you do for us each and every day. Thank you so much for your son who died on the cross for us and rose three days later, so that we can have a relationship with you. And it’s in your son’s name that we pray. Amen.

Kristy: 33:10
Amen.

Tony: 33:12
Thank you guys. Hope you guys have a great rest of your day and a great week, and we’ll see you next time.